http://www.iamscruelty.com/

THIS REALLY PISSES ME OFF

Yea.. pisses me off too...

You are sure one big liberal, Kenut. PETA, I just recently received a flier from them, I signed up. In Creative Writing we have to read 7 fictional articles and one I read was about the founder of PETA, Ingrid Newkirk. It infuriated me. When you sign up for PETA it asks you if you're available to participate in protests. I selected 'no' but, technically, I would be willing over summer. I was shocked when I saw your post about this, Kenut.

Its really bad that ppl do this to poor animals. However...PTA? im sorry but they are hypocritical bastards. There have had quite a few issues where they havent supported animals. Especially when there was that vegetarian movement to have all be vegetables. So much so, even dear ol Maddox wrote an article on it. lol

Oh yes, I read about this in The New Yorker (mentioned above), and it's more complicated than you think. I forgot what the reason for this was... didn't it have something to do with support of fur clothing? I think it had something to do with, this particular person, supporting PETA. They still disapproved of it. Plus, with visuals such as theirs, I doubt they are hypocritical.

nah. THe whole issue with vegetarians parading against meat lovers coz they say its cruel, and yet millions of small animals die in the harvesting of things like corn and many other agrarian products.

I haven't really heard much about PETA or such. I guess it's becuz I haven't taken any courses on it or seen it much on TV.

But in this case, I got to read it in a website and I was just pissed. Animal testing is wrong...I mean there are other ways. I used to buy Iams food for my dog, I'm gonna stop buying Iams until they stop the testing. I look at my dog and I just wonder how anyone could mistreat them like that. ARGH...I'm just pissed and I know that if my dog knew what was happening he would be pissed too.

i know they should do testing on those annoying bullies from high school.

Now you're speaking my language. No, I think they are capable of being good people but aren't for a number of reasons. I can sympathize though.

Ok I dont want to be a bastard but animal testing is just something that cant really be avoided unless you want to risk human lives. If your one of those people that think a human life is worth the same as a dog then you have valid point.

First its impossible to buy a cosmetic product that has never involved animal testing. For the pharmaceutical industry they really have no other alternative other then testing on animals. If they didnt do this then humans would be at very high risk.

You all want a cure to cancer or to other deseases but dont want to ever test these things out on animals that have the same conditions then I'm afraid we are going backwards and will never gain further knowledge.

Ok all that said I love animals and I dont think they should be treated badly either but saying that i completely dissagree with it and they should ban it really doesnt make sense to me. Well not untill we have computers that can simulate a living animal/human.

I'm not saying we should ban it but I think it's TERRIBLE. I agree with your standpoint on it, actz. I do believe a human life is worth the same as a dog, yes, of course.

I know, this question has come up before. I'd have to say it depends... if you're comparing a Pitbull to a human I'd save the human, of course. But then that decision depends upon the personality and kindness of the human. If you compare a Beagle or Golden Retriever to a human, again, it depends upon the kindness of the human. If the human is extremely nice (my best friend), I'd save my best friend. When it comes down to an extremely nice person that I don't know but I can tell they will do anything for you, I'd save the human. I'm really just skirting around the question because it's very difficult for me to say. It also kind of depends upon the animal's relation to me.

Although my first question would be... "is there another option?"

hehe well like i said you would always lean towards the human and not the dog... I'm not talking about the choice of a serial killer or a dog i just mean any normal/kind human being or a normal kind dog.

a dog will never be the same as a human, but either way they shouldnt test on them...try rats or something.

I wish there were a tool which could determine what your "pet" is thinking. In some ways I do while others not. A cat: "I'm not going to give you the time of day... I'm your superior for eden's sake!"

lol...animals dont have reasoning PHP. (unless u talk humans). .so they wouldnt think much

Well.. a while ago.. I saw this thnig on High Tech Toys (TV show) ... a fog wears it on their neck... and it analyses the sounds (barking, growling.. etc. ) to tell you what it is "feeling" ...

well feeling is different from rationalizing

I understand how sometimes there is no way around animal testing. Sure, I know that...it's unfortunate. But have you read this website about how they treat the animals?

The put the dogs and cats in small cells with no windows. They leave them there with next to nothing. There was even mention a cat living near some sorta board with nails...and when this board fell down and killed the cat the manager of the place just left it there until some investigator was coming...only then did he remove the cat. There was also mention about the animals being captive in such a small place...losing their minds...an next to nothing in terms of health care...is this justified for testing? Would it be too much to ask to provide them with a damn window? Maybe a little bit of love and care? How about a living area without amonia smells so strong is burns people's eyes??? Are all these living conditions part of testing the animals? What are they trying to find out...How long it takes for a dog to lose his mind while in small space while breathing amonia fumes??? Someone please justify this cuz it's beyond me.

There are many words I can use to reflect the reasoning of this statement but I hate insulting people to extremes so I'll just say it's not true. I've read about experiments that prove this isn't the case. Chickens are very strategical animals. You can't say such a thing without proof.

Kenut: There's ABSOLUTELY no reason for this! It's outrageous! Unjustifiable! Immoral!

The laws have been reviewed and I agree they need to treat the ones being tested a lot better the cost of it is very expensive but it needs to be done. This still wont please the animal rights group in anyway. Well Kenut I dont want to shock anyone but you do realise many of these animals that are being tested do die.

Anyways I didnt want to turn this thread into a animal lover/hater debate or if they are intelligent or not. They are doing loads of testing on rats and in some cases its actually proven to be more effective then dogs and cats but it just depends on what kind of experiment they are conducting. I've seen all the horrible pictures of animal testing and they make me sick but I can manage to over look it slightly to see the end result.

thing is..animals still dun have the power of reasoning..thats what makes us different from them. A dog will never understand why u leave home or why even if u kick it everyday (i dont, just hypothetical) it still wags its tail when u come back home.

For experiments to be successfully carried out its essential to have the animals isolated so running in a field can’t really happen for most of the animals being tested on. As for better treatment I agree they should have larger living space and of course be treated better then home animals but this still wont make anyone happy and it will cost them a lot of money for something that wont really please anyone who is against the general animal testing. Its a shame but this is how they look at it.

Actually, if they treated the animals better, I for one would be happier. Of course I'm not the only one in the world. But I'm probably not alone in this opinion. Yea...I thought about the grass idea...that's why I said "would be nice too."

I'm sure better treatment would please the animals. Cuz I really don't think bad treatment helps their research. But treating them better is more humane and it shows some compassion.

The main reason for the cruel treatment is its more cost effective and it cuts back on all the extras. They should change this but like i said it may please some of us but the over all feeling is don’t do the testing. I'm on the same page as you Kenut but people that say stop it all together don’t usually think of the consequences and all the things they take for granted that have been already tested. That’s the only point I wanted to make clear.

well, animal testing should be stopped, but actz has a valid point. Some really great breakthroughs have been made which would save several lives, and theyre really worth it i guess...

Lokking at it from the point of view that the animals are going to die is wrong. arent we all going to die someday? so, would you ill treat an elderly person just because he/she is going to die b4 u??

I agree with you totally deftone, animal testing is disgusting and so is someone having to think about saving the mum or there dog.

This is not what I said however:

Well I love animals anyone that knows me will tell you every time i see a cat i'll have to go pet it. I cant just walk past one without paying some attention to it but I have a pretty clear vision when it comes to reality of life.

Anyways the point is anyone that says they would have a problem chosing in between a loving mother and a loving dog is just lying to gain attention its not even worth a reply.

Hmm... Hard to believe they would do things like that...

Even with the dog and the cat, I personally favor cats over dogs (for most people it seems to be conversed), it would still depend upon their personality and my attachment to them. Of course, as most people will say, cats tend to be more stuck up than dogs, but you really just have to try to understand them. Therefore, many people would chose the dog.

My first desire would be for this to be a nightmare.

Hmm peculiar and sad.
Although, back on-topic, this thread is curuising of course.

Well to put this topic simply there are a lot of sick people out there who are hurting animals. But i do also see the point that you can save a lot of humans from doing this, but that doesn't make it right. Its more websites that offer pictures of hurt cats. Also the things anti-animal testing groups stick on our streets and through our letter boxes are also disgusting which makes me shocked about it but actually slightly more shocked that they are showing these disgusting images which makes my breakfast come straight up and out of my body. So really both sides are disgusting but the side doing the testing is worst because they are actually hurting these animals. Vegetarians are perfectly fine to have problems with people eating meat around them but a lot of the vegeterians i know are really only vegeterians because they either don't like the taste of meat or most often because there parents are. My older friends who are vegeterians, especially the males tend to not be vegeterians when they turn 16. But of course i am only saying this because of my personal experiences. The other reason they are vegeterians is because of there religion.

okay lets see..being a vegetarian by choice because of your health is acceptable, because you desire no meat thats okay. To be a vegetarian simply because u think its cruel to kill animals is just hypocritical thinking, millions die in harvesting ur veggies. To be a vegetarian supposedly, but still eating stuff like egg or fish is also stupid, they are still animals.

Yeh Deftone they are animals, bit dumb, perhaps you can't make any really good meals without them? I know someone who has some kinda egg alergy thing so he misses out on loads of stuff that he would really like to eat. Egg is just undeveloped chicken and fish is erm fish which is meat!

yeah thanks for restating my point

sarcasm? or you just sounding sarcastic, anyway i did it in a more agreeing explanatory way.

Of course in the future there could be an animal/being which looks down on us. They could discuss if saving there mothers or us if a flying saucer was just about to land on them. If this happened then there could be a sortage of humans and of course eventually and nearly undoubtably humans will become extinct its really just a matter of time. I still believe that a human life is worth a lot more than an animals.