I applaud Mass. for their recent move. Post your argument.

It is legal in Canada..
and I dont care, do what they want. Doesnt bother me any.

Yeah I could care less it doesnt effect me in anyway. Its been legal in some areas for a while now divorce lawyers just doubled their business hehehe they should be celebrating. This should help Howard Dean in the upcoming months.

I think its ridiculous that they havent been able to legally for so long. Even now they really havent "won" because Mass is also passing an amendment to ban it or something, my brother (who lives there) was in town this past weekend saying something about it. They'll have a huge amount of gay marriages they retroactively theyll all become illegal within a year or so.

yeah nobody has won its going to be on going fight I have read loads of reason why they shouldnt allow it and the majority of americans are against it.

I'm all for it. I've taken courses that dealt with this issue. I know the basic argument of the side against it...I respect it but I don't agree with it.

hey if your gay and date someone the same size as you, you double your Clothes

Haha, yeah, that's a great reason . But seriously, I still don't understand those people aren't really seen as humans. I thought it's every humans right to marry, but everybody seems to forget that gay marriage is about the same thing as a straight marriage. Why prohibit it? Does it disturb anybody? If married or not, they'll keep kissing on the streets, that won't change. They should have as many rights as we have, including the right to marry each other

I don't believe in Gay Marriage and relationships... I iz a chrisitian... but if people wanna be gay, then be gay but keep away from other straights like me!

I used to think that all gay people should be put on an island and a hydrogen bomb "tested" on them..... im older and a little wiser now all I want now is them to be off TV... after that they can do what ever it is they want except for adopting children I am sorry but I realy realy cannot bring myself to see some poor kid in school getting teased about his two moms or dads.... its just not right and I understand they want kids as part of a complete life experience and the kids do need homes. Somewhere there is a planet where things all make sense unfortunatly this aint it...

I am a devout Catholic. However, I feel, at this point, that we can't change who they are as people. I don't think they should be allowed to get married since the basic concept of marriage is to procreate, but I have no problem with a person being gay.

Legally...i do not see why not, if they really wanted to. IF we have to deal on the subject from a more religious approach then i would be against any type of gay relationship as it defies the convenant God has placed on the union of man and woman, making an aborration of nature. (Do not get offended and yell up all in my face, im just placing the views as it is from my religion)

Another way to look at it, from the physical aspect, one might say. We were made a certain way, built, our parts to compliment with each other. Mouths to mouth, etc. THe sexual organs were made one way and not the other. So rather than say "oh thats wrong," or "inmoral" or whatever, simply look at how we are physically and determine that it is not really natural for 2 human beings of the same sex to engage in anything past friendly interaction.

I understand all your viewpoints on this. But, sadly, mine will never change... Being gay is not natural.

I've never seen a gay animal (ones not domesticated).

I don't hate gays, though, for their choice, it just really gets to me when they adopt a child. Dear lord, it doesn't work in any situation (man w/ man, woman w/ woman). I'm not questioning the amount of love they can give the child... just how the hell the child is expected to live with one counterpart missing! And, it is going to have a very strong influence on their preference choice later on in life.

Those would have to be my main reasons against gay marriage.

any immature comments will be removed without notification. If you can't act mature and hold a discussion, don't post anything. We are not here to offend people.

i dun see how anyone so far has been immature about this bangbang, unless u deleted their post already... i agree however that it is not natural.

Some people say marriage is sacred and that it would be ruined if gay marriage was allowed. Marriage hasn't been sacred for a long while. Check out the divorce statistics. Marriage was once a sacred event, but times have changed. Time to evolve.

People don't choose to be gay.

Look at racism ages ago before african americans were accepted for example. There still are racists, but generally african americans aren't persecuted(at least not as much).

And for the religous fanatics, the Bible was written so long ago that it doesn't have modern issues that we have today. Evolution is hindered because people are still looking back for answers instead of the future.

If the Bible said it was unnatural to be dark skinned or colored, would you be against african americans too?

i am not against that
and theres only good things that can come out of this
like economy and stuff

Strangley for me this is kinda for gays...

If we are Christians then we believe in god, we also believe that god made and changes the human race. So if we believe that then don't we believe god changed some people to be homosexuals for a reason? Just a lil point, i don't see what reason (s)he was thinking of. Anyone?

Thanks Deftone for the friendly reminder but lets not start assuming I dont think he was insinuating that everyone who is religious here would be considered a fanatic there is such thing as fanatics when it comes to religion I’m sure everyone is aware of that but we are talking about the extremes.

The procreation argument i can agree with also.

Unless we are talking hemafrodites, human beings were not made to reproduce with the same sex.

Are we humans supposed to do only the things we are supposed to do? I mean, if we are, then all of us shouldn't be behind his/her computer, everybody should only be trying to survive, and procreate. That's what life is for, survive. I'm supposed to be religious too, but I'm starting to doubt. God mad us, then I guess God made all those bacteria's and viruses, didn't he? Anyway, take a look at the most simple forms of life. If you do, then you'd see all they do is trying to survive, and procreate, in any kind of way : cloning, but also paring. The paring thing isn't made just for 2 sexes to be there for each other. Sex is ONLY to mix DNA, that's actually what it's about. Nothing more, nothing less. Nature helped us a lot by making it one of the best feelings we can think of. Now, I think all of you see sex as something else than that, and I must admit that what I just said isn't the first thing I think about when I hear the word "sex". So if sex can be for fun, then gay sex is totally normal.

Second : marriage is nothing more and nothing less than a promise two people who (are supposed to) love each other. The promise to stay together no matter what. Even that promise doesn't mean anything anymore, it has become an everyday event, it's still important, but the original meaning isn't that important anymore, people divorce everyday. If the meaning is gone already, why can't we let gay people marry as well, maybe their marriages will be even better than the marriage of straight people, who knows?

This may turn out to be a rather lengthy discussion from me:
I'm liberal so, of course, I have absolutely no problem with this and I agree 100% with snocked on his african americans comment. The Bible has such an incredible amount of influence over people, I tend to look at it as being "mainly" negative, in many religions (I won't specify). As you can tell, I'm not a religious person and usually think of religiousness as a hindrance (again, in many religions).

I can see your point on opposing sexual organs... we already know two people of the same sex were not meant to reproduce, that's stating the obvious. If they want to adopt a child, who cares, that's their prerogative! As for the impact on the children... it doesn't matter if the marriage is "weird", as long as they are in a loving environment. If this is the case, I doubt they'll care. What's wrong with being different!?!? Just because other species don't laugh does that mean we shouldn't? - it's different; deviation from the normal behavior... They were interviewing two lesbians on the news one night and they seemed more level-headed on the whole topic of marriage than any heterosexual.

@M$: I'm glad you've changed your ultra-conservative ways (somewhat). Do you realize how ridiculous your statement sounds? Are gay people any less human than us? If you say yes you need your head examined! They're different but not any less human.

I'm not saying I don't think the aspect of gay marriage is peculiar, of course I do, it's different, different people are shunned. Unless you're like everyone else you're labelled as weird. (Here you go again Rezza) F*** normality... I spit on the word.

Conservatism and religion... which is the chicken and which is the egg. This does not apply to all religions.

Just to break the tension that I see building. Please be respectful of everyone's individual beliefs. This is not about who is right and who is wrong.

Oh... but it is, but it is. j/k I can express myself very well when I can't see the listeners.

Maybe there'll be a future where everydody thinks racism and homophobia is nonsense. I won't say anybody is wrong or right, I have my own opininon and I'll be glad to hear anybody come with a good argument to change my opinion, and I actually am trying to make some people change theirs.

I don't know why people make such a big deal of gay marriage, but really, what is the difference between people who marry knowing they'll never be able to keep up their promise, and gay people who marry? There will always be something you don't like, that doesn't mean it doesn't have the right to exist.

I have to post again because I agree with your point to the 50th degree. I am trying to change others' minds but will listen to, although not necessarily accept, conflicting opinions as well. We can't let sexual normality get in the way. It's normal to us but not necessarily to another... who's right? No one.

If you believe in god you'll listen to the statement, "god created us in his own image". Who's to say god wasn't gay himself? If he were would you more readily accept homosexuals?

Haha, that's a great one php You could say exactly the same thing for macho's : "maybe god is a woman"
I think you just hit the spot. Noone know who god is or what he looks like. Lots of christians believe it's an old wise man with a beard. But apparently, he wasn't much into sex himself. So maybe we should all stop having sex (if you ever have )

Thanks hehe. I myself can't imagine god as being either sex seeing as he's supposedly a superbeing/entity. I just can't imagine god with either sexual organ... he's/she's/it's a superbeing!

I don't have a bible lying around otherwise I'd be able to provide more evidence (or a lack of evidence)... my grandma might but I didn't want to bother her, I just pulled one quote that I knew for sure was in the bible. Sorry if I lack sufficient evidence. The point is still justified and understood, would you say?

there is historical and factual evidence of the origin of the manuscripts that make up the New Testament. The whole Bible wasnt made by the apostles. Another loophole there in ur knowledge ehe. Bible is comprised of Old and New testament. the Old testament is the one we share with the Jews, written by the ancient prophets. The New testament is the books written by the apostles about the life and teachings of jesus christ and how it renews our faith in God.

If you read my points you will see that your point is still not made. (Btw im not being aggressive in any way, if it sounds like it i apologize. )

I think however we shouldnt get too much off base the topic here. If u want to discuss theology with me (and rezza i know he loves it hehe) just PM me about it sometime.

Meanwhile lets stick to gay marriage to the simplest form. I used the example from nature so that we wouldnt draw into a religious debate. I guess i didnt try hard enough for that to happen.

I agree, I'm going to come off as obnoxious. I'm sure you understand the general idea I'm getting at (maybe), although my evidence is lacking seeing as I've never looked at a bible before.

ok ladies, calm down now. Let's not close this thread too.

Another point... just because we say "people don't chose to be gay, they're born this way" doesn't mean we believe in god. It's just a perspective (a conservative would state the opposite).

I see that most people don't mind the marriage bit between a gay couple but most people here do mind that if they get children. Aside from the possible "teasing" that might happen...I just want to make it clear that people who are gay claim that they are born gay and they were not influenced to be gay. On top of that...Research has shown that kids that were brought up by a gay couple, did not grow up to be gay themselves.

As for a comment made about how a kid can be brought up with one gender missing as a parent is absurd. What about all the kids who come out of a one parent family? I'm one myself. My mom took care of me or my maid did. I basically didn't have a father figure...It hasn't affected me. The thing is...What my family lacked, I was able to get from other sources..like friends? extended family? etc..I'm sure a child from a gay couple will do the same thing.

Most people are against gay marriage because it's against their religion and probably because it looks weird and odd...unnatural. Personally...I'm not Christian so the only reason I have against gay marriage is seeing maybe two gay men kissing...two lesbians kissing is a different story *wink wink* With all joking aside...Seeing a gay couple kiss may bother me, but really...I could look away...I could choose to ignore it. Just cuz I don't like it doesn't make it wrong. I shouldln't prohibit someone just because I don't like it.

As for the religion part...You guys could argue forever...Probably never get to resolution. As for PHP questioning bits and pieces of the bible...You could always bring up the part of how the bible doesn't explain the Earth's age...The dinosaur bones that have been found etc.. I myself don't really want to get into arguing the bible..You can't help but offend people. The bible is like the source of their religion...and by questioning it...you will offend people.

I was in a course that dealt with sexuality...My friend heard from someone that the course was about sex...and recommended it to me. Anyways, I took it and found out it dealt with sexuality and stuff like Queer Theory...My prof was openly gay and he had the look too...Many students the class were openly gay as well. Hearing them talk about gay marriage is really something everyone should do.

Homosexuals are born gay and they dont' know why. They just know that someone of the same gender are the only ones they can love and be intimate with. Humans are no where near as simple as most animals are...You can't really compare. Humans have "love" and isn't that all that really matters? If two people...regardless of gender are in love...why stop them?

I know the government doesn't want to allow same-sex marriage because they are worried after that gets passed then gay couples will want kids. With the kids issue...what happens is more people will be in an uproar...Cuz (it even shows here) people don't know the research...or they don't believe the research...or they just don't care. However you put it...I still think this is discriminating and it's no different than racism and the like.

Those who are against it because of religious values and vote no need to realize they are forcing their beliefs on others. Our current president is a religious fanatic.

Let us abandon the fact that heterosexuals are the norm and pretend homosexuality is. If the roles were reversed and there was some homosexual politician or president(backed by gay voters) telling you that heterosexual marriages were no longer legal, then surely you'd cry.

i think people should be free to marry who ever they want as long as they are in love.. i mean they are going to be together anyways why stop them from doing something that will make um very happy?? i think its wrong!! so i vote they should be free to make their own choices!!

I know you guys have your own opinions. I am not imposing any of my views on you. I am simply stating that if you are going to use the Bible to trip itself, that you know it better before you do so. I also notice that instead of talking about gay marriage we are more discussing on how to attack and defend our religious beliefs. I ask kindly that u not engage in this. If u want to do so, go do so privately through chat. I will not say any further because I fear it shall create more troubles within the topic.

Everything Kenut, snocked, and psYchotic have said up to this point (and based on their ideals, everything in the future) I completely agree with. I'm shocked, I was positive this thread would be closed by the time I got home.

Deftone:

debating yes. But debating does not include rudely debasing other ppl's beliefs. If you ever took debate , you will see that in order to win the argument, u have to provide evidence without a trace of personal opinion into the matter. The way they make u practice is to make u defend a point u do not agree with. We are discussing gay marriage, not which religion u find best or what u think of religion.